Color Management The ‘Right’ Way?

I’ve stayed away from Color-Managed Projects for awhile because I felt it slowed me down and I didn’t like the feel and response of the controls, compared to a normal Rec709 display-referenced session. I have to say, though, Blackmagic has put a lot of time and thought in the new “RCM2,” and they’ve clearly studied the problem very closely. I may take a leap of faith and embrace a new way of working once we make the big switch to 17 in a few weeks (or maybe a couple of months, whatever it turns out to be). There are clearly some real advantages to it in 17.

Clarifying question as I understand it: If working in a Project-wide Color Managed workflow with Log footage (Like Log-C) changed the use of LUTS (Creative and Technical LUTS) because of transforms like IDT’s and changing (and whatever else I may be missing)?

Thanks again for your time.

100%. Generally speaking, in a color-managed workflow you’ll let the software use mathematical transforms to help normalize the image. In theory, you’re telling the software the camera recording color space and gamma + the display color space and gamma. The software will apply the proper math to show you what the camera lens was seeing, normalizing to the viewing display.

In this scenario, LUTs are relegated more for creative Look management. Camera-specific LUTs aren’t applied since the camera IDT serves that purpose. Of course, you’ll want your creative LUT to be designed for your working color space (such as DaVinci Wide Gamut).

The exception is when you don’t have a transform for the camera color space / gamma – you’ll then need to bypass color management and use your ‘traditional’ tools to handle this process, including LUTs. Does that make sense?

Marc – I’m with you. I’ve always avoided truly color-managed projects in the past. R17 and RCM2 has completely changed my feelings on this. At least for a while, I’m going to work fully color managed – as much as I can. After a few more jobs I’ll re-evaluate the experience. But I think it’s worth exploring this workflow for a much broader range of projects.

New Colorist / Editor here – So Joey had me mostly convinced about his Custom Aces but after hearing this AND watching the post at Lowepost (With Walter Volpatto https://lowepost.com/colorgrading/ph/hollywood-colorist-walter-csi-about-his-color-grading-process-r48/) where Walter uses a fixed node tree in what to my n00b understanding is attempting to solve a lot of the problems that Joey is attempting to solve HOWEVER Walter “seems” to be using a project based color management approach. While I know there is no one correct way to skin this cat I am looking/wanting to start this journey out on a positive foot and”do things correct” and Joey you seemed even a bit unsure about your own workflow at this point with DR17’s new DWG. Any further thoughts on a solid approach for a Director/Filmmaker (new Colorist) who does not want to paint themselves into a corner AND would like the ability to hand off the color project(s) to a more seasoned professional to finish once delivery is imminent?

Pat – You sorta eluded to the fact that you use FilmConvert in a way that I am not understanding… You said you use it to ‘get it into a color space, but you turn off all the other options’ this confuses me and I would 1) love to understand this process better and 2) would love more info (future mailbag or an insight) on how pro’s like yourself are using things like FilmConvert and Dehancer etc.

@tao-ml-dfcebbaf79842c2e6fca7b77741de3a6:disqus That video with Walter is actually a few years old (I know Lowepost just released it). It was original a webinar that Walter did. And if memory serves that was PRIOR to having the ACES Transform OFX which makes the custom ACES workflow possible.

With that said, and as you point out its largely a preferential issues with some tech concerns. In a project wide approach if you don’t have an IDT well your stuck using a generic one (709). There is also really no way to get ‘in front’ of the IDT. In a custom approach you have options for both things – CSTs to adjust the image pre IDT, and the visualization of camera space vs ACES working space.

So if you’re worried about painting yourself into a corner I think with custom there is less chance of that because of the two sides of the tree.

I don’t think Joey’s doubting the workflow I think its more so DWG provides another option sans RRT that is attractive.

In regards to FilmConvert – they profile cameras/sensors so in a way simply choosing that profile is a pseudo IDT to normalize the image. What @pat is referring to turning off are the stock controls and other filmic tonal qualities for a particular stock – or at least minimizing them.

I don’t want to speak for Walter – but I believe in that workflow he is likely working under a very carefully engineered show LUT for the film on the timeline level. This is actually closer to my custom ACES way of doing it then it is to project-wide color management. It’s doing the entire grade in a wide space (in my case ACEScct, in Walter’s case likely the camera working space, for example LogC) and working under an output transform for a specific target display.

Since this podcast recorded, I’ve actually released another insight where I go into some more detail on using the new tools in my custom ACES workflow, and i test it with DWG with some good results:

Custom ACES Part 4: Updating For Resolve 17

Hey Patrick,
Thank you for taking the time to answer my question. Your answer definitely sheds more light on the situation and makes sense.

I do prefer the software to do the transform given the proper camera transform supports the specific camera.

My follow up question would be how to use creative LUTS and Show LUTS in a color managed workflow? I like to use creative LUTS to spark creativity and try different curves. If I’m using IDT transforms, how would I incorporate creative LUTS in this workflow? And how can I know if a creative LUT is designed to work in DaVinci WG and the like?

Patrick, in the discussion you say that in RCM2 there’s “a tweak you can do with the global tool” to manage black levels. I’m not sure what tool that is… the global wheel in the HDR palette?